Kein Zwanni für nen Steher!
Kein Zwanni calls out for Hamburg boycottWe today are calling out a boycott for our upcoming away match in Hamburg on Sunday, 22nd of January 2012. Despite our talks with the club over the summer, we are not able to see any changes in Hamburg's barefaced pricing politic.
We are going to record our reasons in a letter to Hamburger SV. Furthermore we will update you on what is happening in a timely manner. We however would already request you to not buy any tickets for the match Hamburger SV vs Borussia Dortmund. The presale starts today.
We are no longer willing to pay those horrendous ticket prices and therefore call out to every BVB supporter: Do not buy any tickets for the match in Hamburg. Let us set an example for faire pricing in Bundesliga football! Keep football affordable!
Protest instead of boycott
HSV acknowledges "Kein Zwanni" as discussion partnerThe pre-sale for members of the HSV for the match vs Borussia Dortmund is in progress since the 15th of February 2011. As a consequence the ticket prices are of course fixed. Unsurprisingly the BVB was classified in category A, which implies prices between 19€ and 84€ plus 10% pre-sale fees.
In the forefront the organisers of „Kein Zwanni“ wrote a letter to the persons in charge of the HSV and pointed towards their concerns. As a result the executive board of the HSV got in touch to open negotiations. In terms of equal treatment (the supporters of St.Pauli, Werder Bremen and Bayern Munich already paid the high ticket prices) the HSV did not want to develop a last minute solution but offered concrete conversations in summer, to work out solution processes and if applicable to find a coherent solution for every guest supporters.
Because of this circumstance „Kein Zwanni“ decided to grant the executive board of the HSV a credit of trust and to go without a boycott recommendation for the match in Hamburg. Additionally because of the fact that a boycott is always tough for supporters and can only be the last resort and as well that the „Kein-Zwanni“-Alliance has the aim to work solution-orientated and not conflict-orientated. We want to find a solution together with the clubs which enables the football and an active fan culture a future.
Therefore we are happy, that such a tradition-rich and great club like the HSV grabs the chance to discuss the important topic of „fair ticket prices“ with the supporters and accepts the "Kein Zwanni"-Alliance as a negotiating partner. We are also glad about the fact, that the direction of the HSV understands, that "Kein Zwanni" is a initiative, which is concerned about the future viability of football and does not want to discredit the clubs. Of course football clubs have a valid interest in earning money. But they are well advised to not lose sight of their most faithful clientele. Even so for example it is no God-given obviousness that English supporters are envious of the German fan culture and for that reason visit football matches in Germany. The development in England should be an admonitory example for supporters and officials.
The offer for a discussion of the HSV and our eschewal of a boycott recommendation does not change the fact, that we conceive the prices for the match HSV – BVB as much too high. Because of that we are going to point to the problematic in a great campaign on the matchday and will together with the supporters of the HSV protest for an affordable football. We hope a great number will join us!
The fight for fair ticket prices does not know club colors.
24. Februar 2011.
AGAINST MODORN FOOTBALL:
A Complaint against Premier League Ticket PricesII come from the generation of fans who have crossed over from the days of the old Football League with its terraces and poor conditions to today's media darling that is the Premier League with its modern stadia.
In 1986 I bought my first season ticket. It was an adult ticket for the old standing Kop. It cost me £45. In the preceding 1985/6 season Kop matches cost adults £2.50 each, the Main Stand wing section cost £3.50 and the Kemlyn Road cost £5.00 per match.
This summer I've paid the online discount price of £680 for a seat in the place I used to stand. This season sees face value tickets at Anfield now costing up to £45 each for 'category A' matches, the same price as the entire cost of my season ticket 25 seasons ago... and we're not even the dearest team in the League to watch!
Enough is enough, its time to stop this disgraceful exploitation of the fans, in truth it has been time to do something about this for years. It's the great unsaid about our national sport while the media hype surrounding the game convinces most people about how lucky we are to have "the best league in the world".
I happen to support Liverpool. If my family was from another place then we'd support somebody else. I am listing my own example knowing that fans of other teams can add their own twist to this, from their own perspective. I do of course definitely blame the Reds for their part in the cost of Anfield tickets, it's their stadium after all but I can't blame just my own team for it, more the Premier League as a whole with all of it's teams taking at least some share of accountability and I'll explain why... If Liverpool took their own admirable moral stance and kept ticket prices down unilaterally then they'd fall financially and then competitively behind their rivals, such is the greed for success culture that they're all playing in. The teams are all terrified of each other, worried about losing their place behind a rival in the race for Europe or for a place in the Premier League itself such is the financial difference granted to each league placing and the sponsorship that rewards it.
Prices have increased steadily above the rate of inflation year upon year since the inception of the Premier League. Much has changed of course in following our national game since 1986, much for the better it must be said... but also some for the worse.
In common with plenty of my mates I can honestly say I have been there seen it and done it as a fan, so we know what we're talking about... but where are we ever given a voice on matters affecting the game and more importantly affecting us directly?
I'm not saying that we should run the sport from our seats in the stands or from in the alehouse after the match, what I can state as fact though is that we are the experts in supporting the teams and are a vital ingredient for the sport so we should have some sort of say.
We are told periodically how valuable we are, how unique we are. Imagine those great European nights shown on live TV without us playing our full part... they wouldn't be anywhere near as much of an exciting proposition for the sponsors would they?
Let's cut to the chase and get a couple of excuses for ticket pricing policy out of the way before I go on:
* I know that standing up was cheaper than sitting down and I'll even assume a price of the most expensive seats from 1986, which was exactly double the cost of standing up... so that would make the equivalent cost of a season ticket for the Kemlyn Road in 1986 as £90.
* Lets say that the clubs need to make the same money over the course of a season from the current 19 Premier League matches that they did from the days of the Football League's 21 matches (very debatable I know, but lets be generous and let them have that so the cost is spread for the season as a whole).
With the above two conditions granted I can calculate what the £90 season ticket in 1986 is worth in today's prices by putting it against the retail price index... it works out as £206.25. That's a staggeringly low amount compared to what we pay now. It means at Anfield we're paying either £680 or £732 this season for a seat that would work out as just less than £11.00 per match in real terms based on 1986 prices!
It almost defies belief doesn't it? It's crept up on us year by year but the cost is reaching breaking point now and I can see a reduction in attendances coming very soon. There's an advert on the radio out at the moment from a channel that that says remember when we could all afford to go to the match? Well it's now cheaper to watch it with us instead! I could of course just vote with my feet, say I'm not paying that much and go and do something else but that is not only morally wrong but would entirely miss the point. The whole essence of being a supporter like me and my mates, like those who follow all the other teams with equal love and fervour is that it involves a life's journey. I take my lad and am "lucky" enough most of the time to get adult/child tickets but there is no guarantee with that and I'm sometimes faced with the cost of two adult tickets! My dad followed the team before us, so did my granddad...and my great-granddad. It's a passion we've shared through the good times and bad, through our triumphs and tragedies. It's our team.
Lord Justice Taylor's Report on the Hillsborough Disaster made 76 recommendations with the main focus being his recommendation for all-seater stadia. The authorities and football clubs in this country jumped at this opportunity, championing the new blue-print for football but there was a deafening silence on what Taylor had added, when he stated that in going to all-seater stadia, the result should not be increases in ticket prices that takes the game away from its traditional supporters. He quoted £6 I think as his recommended price for a seat. Taylor was referring to the legions of fans from a century of supporting their teams through thick and (mostly) thin, whose passion for the sport made it what it is today; the national game, the world's game. He meant the likes of me and my mates, those of us who had survived the very disaster he was reporting on.
II've heard slick football executives wax lyrical about the Premier League and all its qualities and to be fair there are many but while they'll happily quote and highlight the rare good deal for the sake of argument - and not what the vast majority of seats regularly cost - ticket pricing is something they don't like to be drawn on or talk about.
If there are any excuses about the costs of tickets let's be clear on a couple of points:
* attendances since 1986 have increased and now there is no standing so that means that all of the punters are paying the same higher level of price for their tickets, in the old days maybe half the ground was paying a lesser price for standing up but now the whole ground all pay what would have been the higher seat price.
* sponsorship money has come into the game on a level that could never previously have been imagined in 1986. I don't think anybody could've believed at the time the money that would flood into the sport, it's a whole world away from where we were back then.
* the major factor is the increase in player power and the knock-on effect from the Bosman ruling but if the clubs collectively charged less for tickets, they could still afford to attract and make very rich young men out of very good players.
This means that if the game was run properly in this country - I suppose I should say if it was run even remotely fairly - then this massive financial cake that we've got in football now - gigantic compared to what it was in 1986 - has more than enough to go around for everybody. So guess who gets bigger slices of this cake? Players? Yes. Agents? Yes. Clubs? Yes. The Premier League? Yes. Supporters? No!
I could understand an increase over time above living costs to account for improved facilities and stewarding, more medical staff at clubs as players' fitness and conditioning improves etc but it would be insulting our intelligence to say that ticket prices need to be at this extortionate level to cover them. If ticket costs had been kept in check the clubs would still run, there would still be a high-profile and successful league to enjoy. Prices are nowhere near as dear in other major European leagues and they still thrive; neither of last season's Champions League finalists came from England, nor did the previous seasons' winners. Germany has the lowest ticket prices and the highest average attendance of Europe's five biggest leagues. Last season a seat on Borussia Dortmund's equivalent to the Kop had an average price of around _13 (directly comparable to 1986 prices) and the cost even includes free rail travel to and from the stadium! From experience I can say that it's a fine stadium, it hosted the 2001 UEFA Cup Final. It's all a question of balance isn't it? I'm not suggesting that I should turn up next season and instantly expect to pay £30 less for each of my match tickets but surely it can be recognised that we're paying far too much and it needs sorting out.
If the clubs did cut their cloth smaller regarding players' wages you never know, we might even have more home-grown players in the Premier League as an added benefit. It's not even as though the massive hike in ticket prices has been filtered down to benefit grassroots football in this country and to help improve the performance of the national team over the long term is it? The problem is that the various parties like the clubs, players and agents etc all act independently for their own interests which has not been for the good of the game. There are other ills with the status quo like how clubs are overspending to the point where their very future existence could be at risk but this is an argument against Premier League ticket prices so I'll stick to that here.
I've got plenty of friends who I could name who've been priced out of going the match during these past 25 seasons. An important part of their lives has been moved away from them. Our loyalty as fans has been taken for granted. Our love for our teams, their traditions, the friendships built up and what our communities have meant to us has been exploited and we're paying through the nose.
How long can I afford to keep it going? Shouldn't the average working man be able to afford to go and take his lad to watch their team every other week?
Like anything in life, today's children are the future. There is now a generation of people who've been priced out of being supporters because we're talking about almost a £100 day out for a "dad and lad". There's a whole culture of young fans not going to the matches because of the cost. The Premier League's average supporter age increases each year. We've got kids growing up believing satellite television is what football is all about and people who think a great atmosphere is when noise levels increase down the local pub when the big game is shown in there!
It's time we got together across the clubs and concentrated on what we have in common, what brings us together and to remember that we all need each other to get the best out of each other. It's time for some kind of official representation, time the Premier League put on the agenda ticket price reductions. The only thing is, with the way greed has steadily become part of the game over time it's hard to see a way out of the current state we're in... but we can't afford to just shrug our shoulders and give up.
The most likely outcome is that attendances will fall in the future and that clubs will then have to try to do something about the mess that's left over but by then it might be too late for many supporters who've been pushed too far away from the game to ever come back... and just as likely, too late for many clubs who will go bust if they all carry on at this rate! Anybody who loves the game wouldn't just wait for the bubble to burst, there's enough interest, passion, money and expertise around to stop the whole thing from imploding in on itself. The massive challenge of going to all-seater stadia was managed, so there can be no excuse for not being able to rectify inflated ticket prices.
It's our game, the supporters' game, why should we let others ruin it for us? I guarantee you, if for just one week all the supporters from the different clubs could get together and make one meaningful protest then we'd see some swift movement towards fairer prices. Trusting those with influence running the game to consider the fans hasn't worked for us.
The problem is of course that such is football rivalry, there are fans who'll say their own club couldn't be the problem, that they charge less than others, for example "only" £39 per ticket for 'premium' matches. Then there are others who'll say that their team finishes higher than yours and you only get what you pay for. The masses have fallen victim, inch by inch, to a classic case of divide and conquer. A large section of fans have slowly been coaxed without realising it, into accepting an agenda set by greed. So much so that while you might hear fans complain about their club not having enough money for example to compete with those in the top few places in the Premier League, you'll never hear them also moan about the plight of the other clubs, who are an equal distance below their own club on the money ladder. It's time to recognise we're all getting ripped off and we have got the power to do something about it if only we'd all do it together..
In 1986 the game had many problems and thankfully most of the issues from that time have been cleaned up to a large extent but in doing so, the game has twisted in another direction and lost the plot along the way, hurting its traditional and most reliable and vibrant supporters in the pocket and there's no justification for it. Lord Justice Taylor would have been angry about today's ticket prices and I'm livid about it!
21. Oktober 2010.
Kein Zwanni für nen Steher – The Boycott RésuméJust three weeks ago the resentment of increasing ticket prices lead to the foundation of the protest campaign „Kein Zwanni für nen Steher“ (20 € for a standing ticket is a no-go). With the boycott of the Derby at Gelsenkirchen on 19.09. we have reached a first important milestone of the campaign and hopefully that was the starting signal for a movement beyond the boundaries of individual football clubs. Now it is time for a first résumé.
From the start of the campaign, we have emphasised, that this action was not directed against Schalke 04 or part of the usual Derby build-up, the boycott was only meant to mark the beginning of the campaign. We want to be true to our words and want to be measured by them. In fact the boycott existed before the campaign started. Talks between fans and fanclubs showed beforehand, that many were not willing to pay the increased ticket prices and spared to order the tickets, that were reserved for them. On their own these warning signals would have remained unnoticed, so we decided to organise the protest and make it public. Nobody expected that we could achieve this much on such short notice.
The signal best visible were the 1.600 empty places in the away fans area. Many seats remained empty, the guest standing area maybe looked well filled at first glance, but no guest fans have ever had so much elbowroom in the away stands at Gelsenkirchen. Additionally the people that spared to order their tickets beforehand have to be taken into account, so the real number of boycotters was way beyond 2.000. At a Derby usually the ticket demand exceeds the supply for away fans by far, so this was a strong signal. We thank everybody that supported the campaign and stayed at home. Not to visit the Derby was for sure as hard to you as it was to us. And even though we missed a memorable match – it was the right thing to do. We also thank Borussia Dortmund that supported the boycott by not re-selling the returned tickets. That is no matter of course and to take back the tickets already sold, caused a lot of work for the club. We really appreciate that.
A drop of bitterness was the fact, that it was not possible to organise an event where all the boycotters could watch the Derby together in Dortmund. We did our best to make that possible, but totally unrealizable security requirements by the Dortmund police made it impossible. The peaceful and boisterous victory celebration after the match was proof enough, that such an event could have taken place without supervision by masses of security personnel.
Maybe even more important than the boycott are the following two points to us:
1. We received a lot of encouragement by fans of other clubs. It was our aim from the start to send a signal to all fans, that something can be done by fans about the current pricing. The campaign was promoted and supported by banners on many terraces throughout the country. We hope that many fans and supporter groups will pick up the campaign because together we can turn it into something real big.
2. The boycott was covered by most of the relevant nationwide media. This public approach was chosen was chosen by us, to create a widespread awareness towards the problem of rising ticket prices. We wanted to make clear, that our point was not to say “everything was better in the past”, but that the increasing ticket prices will be a long term problem not only for fans but for the clubs as well. The healthy and diverse fan base, most clubs still have today could be permanently destroyed, if tickets become unaffordable for a growing group of fans. This was mostly picked up by the media in a factual and objective way.
How does the campaign continue?
We will establish contact to fanclubs, supporter groups and other fan organisations by other clubs as soon as possible, to broaden the base of the campaign. The problem concerns us all and only together we are able to make the campaign a success. The homepage of www.kein-zwanni.de will be redesigned soon, to clear out the BVB references and make it a platform for fans of all clubs.
How important the cohesion of different fan groups and a unified approach are, was demonstrated to us by the reactions of English fans we have received. Even though 20 € for a ticket is ridiculously cheap compared to ticket prices in England, we have received a lot of support for our campaign from there. Many English fans regret, that they did not take action against high ticket prices in time, as it is now too late to reverse the past development in English football.
We still have the chance to influence the future price development. Let´s take it.
23. September 2010.
"Fussball muss bezahlbar sein!"
21. September 2010.
Bayern München - 1. FC Köln from 18.09.2010
20. September 2010.
News - 15.09.2010Dear BVB-Fans,
Most certainly you have been waiting for more info regarding the upcoming Sunday. Sadly we currently still cannot confirm a location. We are in talks with the City Council as well as the police, to make sure we can gather as many Borussia fans watching the match together in Dortmund on Sunday.
However we can confirm one thing. On Sunday we will be at the Rote Erde at 2pm, to support our second team against Eintracht Trier. We invite all the boycott supporters, to join us at Rote Erde. Firstly to visualize our boycott but also to make sure everyone gets his recommend dose of football on a ground that weekend.
We hope to be able to share more facts about Derbysunday with you soonish. Keep checking www.keinzwanni.de or www.schwatzgelb.com for the latest updates.
19.09. – in Dortmund, for Dortmund!
15. September 2010.
"20 euros for standing – no way!"
13. September 2010.
News1.500 Derby tickets have so far been returned to the club. This means that on Derby day there should be visible gaps on the guest tribune. We are happy our campaign has took off the way it took off and promise to keep the ball rolling.
BVB currently sells tickets via their ticketshop. We assume those tickets are out of the stock that was already available last weekend. All returned tickets have been sent back to Gelsenkirchen. So the tickets currently on sale are in no way harming our protest.
Anyone having trouble returning their tickets, please contact firstname.lastname@example.org. We will try and help you out.
T-Shirts with the “Kein Zwanni” logo will be on sale tomorrow at the “Büdchen” and at the Fanabteilung Office (both located underneath the Suedtribuene). Those T-Shirts will be sold at a price of 5€ and will only be available at the match. All mails asking to put the Shirts into the mail will be left unanswered. We will keep you updated on http://www.keinzwanni.de/en/index.html
10. September 2010.
Derby Boycott - Support or not - BVB coach Klopp clarifies his
positionWhen asked about the derby boycott Jürgen Klopp was quoted: "I like that our people do not go there to finance Jan Klaas Huntelaar". This statement was enough for some German media to come up with the story, that Klopp actually called people to boycott the derby. The campaign of the BVB supporters was once again perceived as the usual pre-derby fuss. As if the boycott was being organized to protest against our rivals signing of expensive players despite their debts being rumoured to be between 200-300m €. The fact that this approach is meant to lead to a sustainable campaign against high ticket prices was once again widely ignored by the media. When asked about the boycott again in today´s press conference coach Klopp took the opportunity to clarify his attitude towards the boycott and the tactics of the media. To prevent future misunderstandings we provide you with a complete transcript of his statement.
Jürgen Klopp: "I´ve been asked 25 times about the boycott during this one interview. I am headcoach of Borussia Dortmund and was not very well informed about the subject at that time. But when you ask me about our fans, it is absolutely normal, that I appreciate what they do as long as it´s legal and does not involve fist fights etc. And I actually do understand their problem. These peolpe have put a lot of thinking into this. The clubs should not set the ticket prices at random, but there are various reasons that lead to price increases. And at this point this has led to more than 1.500 fans refusing to visit this important game even though they had already bought the tickets. That´s a legitimate action. Basically I prefer the stadium to be packed and of course to be filled with our supporters. But what makes this really inconvenient to me is the fact that I talked to one journalist, who supposedly realised that I did not make a serious statement, when I mentioned Huntelaar. And then everybody starts to use this one quote to tell a totally different story of me appealing to people to boycott the derby. What is being made up is just ridiculous. And I find it downright stupid, because I am known for my repartee and in the end it gets taken as serious as the evening news. That will only lead to me not answering questions. To make this clear: I have never called people to boycott the derby and I won´t do that in the future. I just hope that our fans who go see the game will create an atmosphere that enables us to take something home from there. But you can just continue to write what you want, that´s cool with me, too." Source: www.schwatzgelb.de
09. September 2010.
BVB: Returned tickets will not be resoldBVB spokesman Josef Schneck made clear, that returned tickets for the match at Gelsenkirchen will not be sold again. A broad alliance of BVB fans called for a boycott of the match at Gelsenkirchen, since the tickets prices increased over 50 % compared to last season and the limit of what fans are willing and in some cases are able to pay has been exceeded. Borussia Dortmund agreed to take back the tickets and refund the costs to the fans. The reason for not selling the tickets again, said Schneck, was the fact that is not possible to determine who will buy these tickets. Doubts if the the boycott made any sense, based on the assumption that the returned tickets would be sold again to other BVB fans, should be cleared after that statement. So at this point we appeal once more to all our following fans to join the boycott. Overpriced tickets are a concern to all fans no matter their background. Now is the time to take action and set a powerful sign, that we are no longer willing to tacitly accept every new price advance. Source: schwatzgelb.de + Spiegel.de
06. September 2010.
Returning TicketsAfter another round of talks to Borussia the following conditions regarding the ticket returns could be agreed upon: 1.All tickets can be returned. 2. Tickets can be returned personally or via mail. Please add the following form to the tickets. 3. Tickets should be returned until Wednesday (arriving at the ticket office) to ease the work for Borussia. In exceptional cases returned tickets will be accepted by Borussia if they reach the club on later days. . Please try to return the tickets as soon as possible, since Borussia Dortmund helped us a lot. We are sorry for the confusion caused by contradictory information. But the DFL regulations and BVB´s organizational needs made it necessary to change our plans. We can assure you, that the new rules didn’t change the prospects of success. We are optimistic that a large number of tickets will be sent back to Gelsenkirchen as “unsold”. Besides that we work hard to make it possible for BVB fans to watch the Derby together in Dortmund. As soon as we have further informations regarding the location etc. you will find it in our news section. If you have any problems returning the tickets please contact us. We will take care for that. Contact: email@example.com
06. September 2010.